Advie Gundogs

CONTENTS

Advie Gundogs :
Bred for work

Photo (right): Derry and the dogs

Advie pointers and setters are bred for the sportsman who hunts on foot and who wants a fast stylish dog with a passion for game. These dogs are not sold as pets. They will range out yet retain contact with their handler and respond readily to kind intelligent training and handling. Since 1969, my dogs have given satisfaction to sportsmen in over thirty countries world-wide.

You will find detailed information on Advie English pointers on a separate page and you can see the dogs in action and learn more from our books and videos listed on the page for Firth Productions. There are also separate pages on hunting, field trialing, buying dogs, the latest news and training.

Pointer or setter? - My pointers adjust range according to the game population and the type of country. The pointers are easy to manage and are, frankly, my favourites but setters are more instinctive in their work. Setters take longer to train but they remember what they learn. My pointers are probably more adaptable and forgiving. But please don't accept this as a general definition of all pointers and setters -- my own dogs are not typical of the modern UK field trialer although when competing Advie dogs were the ones the others had to beat.

Style on point - No, British pointers and setters do not point lying down! That myth comes from our use of the "Sit" (flat down) to control our dogs and that is a response they are trained to. Some British dogs do occasionally lie down on point -- but that is generally because they are close to birds and realize that a low stance is less likely to spook them. And that is where the scent is going to be if a dog is close up to his game because the scent from the bird hasn't yet had time to rise in the air. From a hunting view point, the matter is irrelevant.

Tail Carriage - If you look at the old books on pointers and setters you will see tail carriage from the horizontal to about 45 degrees. I've never seen a 12 o'clock tail in these old pictures. So I'm not even going to discuss it. Sure, I like a reasonably high tail but to breed for the highest tail nature can produce is just plain silly. Another fancy point best consigned to the show bench. Then there is tail action. Some breeders say they want a dog with lots of tail action when it works. I mentioned this to a surgeon friend who responded with copies of pictures from a book on canine physiology. He pointed out that it was physically impossible for a dog to run fast and wag it's tail at the same time. Next time you see a greyhound or a cheetah on TV, notice how it's tail is used for balance when it is running -- but it doesn't wag it! Leave the tail wagging to the spaniels.

High or Low Head Carriage? - There are a lot of misconceptions about the head carriage of a pointer or setter. Yes, we like to see a bird dog carry a high head. Why? Because the exact location of game birds is best found from the bird's body scent which is carried on the air currents.
But there is also ground scent. This is scent left by an animal or bird on the ground or on vegetation as it moves around feeding etc. Ground scent indicates where the bird/animal has passed but not necessarily where it is now.

So, two type of scent: Body scent which is carried in the air and ground scent left on the ground or vegetation. Obviously, air scent will be found above ground level. It can be so high that dogs will sometimes reach up on their hind legs to find it! But ground scent can also rise from the ground and be carried in the air. It isn't as strong and an experienced dog will know the difference. But do you? Confusing, isn't it?

Because we want our dogs to point game where it is NOW and not where it was five minutes ago, we want our dogs to hunt for this air scent. Hence the general belief that a dog with a high head is the best dog.

But supposing that air scent is at ground level? That is quite possible. If the bird is on the ground, the source of that air scent is also at ground level. Have you noticed how smoke from a fire hangs about at near ground level on a still cold evening? Isn't it logical that the dog should put his nose where the concentration of scent is greatest? Of course! And what is wrong with the dog checking ground scent to help him interpret air scent? What we don't want is for our dogs to try to locate birds by following ground scent, i.e. tracking, though even this will have it's uses as anyone who has hunted an old running grouse will know. The only rule is, Did it get game into the bag? Never mind the fancy points!

I am afraid the subject of scent is very complicated and not at all straight forward but I hope this now explains why a dog with a low head may be quite correct for the conditions at that time! The object is to find where the bird is NOW and provided the dog does not flush before the sportsman can get up to shoot, it has done nothing wrong. If the dog is using both air scent and ground scent to better locate those birds, I'd say he was using his intelligence, wouldn't you?

Retrieving - Many of my dogs are natural retrievers. British bird dogs are not usually required to retrieve, but I now include this in my training program, preferring encouragement (the method we have used successfully in this country for over five hundred years) rather than force methods.

Temperament - I have long believed it is possible (but not necessarily easy) to breed a soft dog that is easy to train but that also hunts with speed, keenness, and style . I will leave it to others to breed dogs which need force training and electric collars. I have been breeding this soft, personable, birdy, almost self-training type of dog which also looks good for over thirty years. The hunting season is relatively short; you have to live with the dog for the rest of the year too.

Range - Many hunters ask what is the range of these dogs. Used for hunting red grouse on the open moorland or pheasants and woodcock in the wooded glens, Advie pointers and setters hunt wide or close using their intelligence and experience to suit the terrain, the quantity of game, and the type of cover -- yet maintain contact with their handler. When fit, they have the courage and independence to hunt all day and every day of the season. They are intelligent good looking hunting companions, not hyper field trial dogs or posing show dogs -- their versatility has been demonstrated by their success for hunters world-wide yet they consistently win at trials too. See the links to my page on hunting.

I expect the dogs to use their brains and I would not bother feeding a dog that did not have the intelligence to keep in touch. If they don't have the brain to realize who has the gun, what am I keeping them for? Advie Annan, my pointer dog "Garry", will hunt out a patch of rough grass a dozen yards square for some escaped game chicks and point at a range of six inches. Not one chick will be harmed and he won't miss any. But I can run him on the open mountain for grouse and he will cover a front several hundred yards wide. But I also train them -- which may have something to do with it! To learn how, see the videos and books on the Firth Productions page or go to the page on Training for a short description.

Sold for research? My pointers have been the first choice of scientists researching the red grouse in Scotland because of their game finding ability, their intelligence, and their ease of handling,

Photo: James Duncan studying red grouse, Speyside. Those are Advie Irish setters, sadly no longer bred in my kennels.

Dr Adam Watson, the leading authority on red grouse in Scotland, has used Advie pointers to help him in his research work with The Institute of Terrestrial Ecology near Banchory, Aberdeenshire, for 23 years. My pointers are also used by Dr Steve Redpath's team that did the Langholm study into the effect of predation on a grouse moor. These dogs, purchased as young "started" dogs, were working on wild game to the scientists' complete satisfaction within just two weeks of leaving my kennels.

Reporting - My pointers have a characteristic I recently learnt of in some strains of Scandinavian pointers. That is "reporting". If my dogs find and point game out of sight, they will occasionally leave the point, come and find me, then go back to resume the point! This has nothing to do with blinking or being soft on point but it is invaluable when hunting woodcock in bushy country.

Visiting Advie Gundogs
A kennels is a very busy place and at certain times of the year it is just not possible to receive visitors. Before considering a visit, remember that you will probably find most of the information you want in my book and you will see more action, and dogs, in the videos than you will usually see by visiting the kennels. Most visitors understand that arriving in the middle of a training session can be particularly upsetting, both for the dogs and for the trainer.

So if you wish to visit Advie Gundogs, please make firm arrangements in advance and try to avoid the period between the 30th September to 1st May. In any event, I will require at least three days notice of your intended visit. If it is not convenient, I will say so.

Advie Gundogs
Miller's Place, Fendom
Tain, Easter Ross IV19 1PE
Scotland UK

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